Nov. 24, 2020

U Can't Touch This

U Can't Touch This

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Welcome to another exciting and hilarious episode of Undebatable. In Episode 5 we explore hot topics such as Workplace Romance, You Touch It- You Buy It, and Why is it so difficult when you call customer service to reach a human? Bad customer service or the way business is handled now a days. Also joining us to give us a accurate, historical perspective of the Thanksgiving Holiday is Historian and Professor David J Silverman as he shares his new book: This Land Is Their Land: The Wampanoag Indians, Plymouth Colony And the Troubled History of Thanksgiving.

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Transcript

Keith:

trivia time. What happens when you put for highly opinionated friends? For microphones and breaking news and controversial topics in a blender? You get one hell of a podcast. This is undebatable A hysterical and thought provoking podcast that sees for friends from different backgrounds debate hot button issues that affect our modern world hot button issues. For quick witted hosts, if it's political news, pop culture news or weird news. We're talking about it. This is undebatable and here are your hosts Raylene? Curtis, Steve and Bradford. Hey, everybody,

Raylene:

it's Raylene in my three best male friends, how are you guys doing? anything exciting happening for you guys this week. Oh,

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

man, I tell you. I was quarantined. Not fun. not fun at all.

Unknown:

Were you alone? Are

Steve:

we with somebody?

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

I was with my husband. So we have we have like this little in law apartment. And thank God, I love him. Because if I didn't, I'd probably have chopped his head off in that small quarters for like 14 days. Yeah.

Steve:

Is that like the true test of a relationship?

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

You know, it makes you wonder, right? Because I can tell you luckily for us. Things were good. But can you imagine like a couple who already had issues now they're quarantines. But you see divorce rates like really high. And it shows you how important in a relationship that you separate for eight to 10 hours a day from each

Unknown:

other.

Raylene:

I've been homesick with COVID for the last two weeks on, you know, prior to that, I'm not spreading it to you guys. And I found out that my husband still the perfect guy. He really really did a good job taking care of me. He did all the shopping. He did all the cooking, he would show up with vitamins. It was like take your vitamin C, take your zinc, take your whatever. And I'm like, are you like, trying to keep me alive? Because that's cool. I mean, I'm diabetic. Can you bring me cookies all the time? I thought you were trying to kill me.

Steve:

And Curtis, you're not underwater? Correct?

Unknown:

I am not underwater. I'm here back in state. I'm actually just starting my quarantine process, which is no fun. I'm trying to be well, I guess not to be but convinced myself that I cannot go swimming nor go to the gym right now that I must stay put. And that is very hard. Are you a frequent swimmer, I love to swim. I really do. And right now it's very hard to be stuck locked in? Well,

Raylene:

as soon as I was told I had COVID. They said basically, I could do the stuff that I was going to do as long as I was wearing a mask, alright, and they said you shouldn't be around people. But if you need to go the store, wear a mask. And I'm like, Well, isn't that what I was doing anyway, when I got the COVID.

Steve:

So when they should just find someone to go to the store for you. And if not, then wear a mask.

Raylene:

I will tell you the coolest thing happened the state of Connecticut called after I got my diagnosis. And at first I thought they were just gonna be like all up in my business trying to do like that contact tracing thing. And instead they were like, Hey, are you okay? Do you need help? Do you need groceries? Do you need medicine? Are you being taken care of? And I was like, wow. And then she said, Do you need to go somewhere to quarantine? Are you with other people. And I was like, That's insane. And then a friend of mine lives in New York City. And she said if you get it there, they will not only that, but they will do like they'll come walk your dog for you. They will do your laundry for you. Because in New York City nobody's got in unit laundry. So I thought state of Connecticut was coming again into my business, but they were coming to see if I needed anything. And I thought that was

Steve:

really really cool. Smart too. It keeps you it keeps you from going out in public if you do up COVID and it makes sure you're taken care of.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Right. Yeah, absolutely. So I don't know, you know, our listeners are from all over. But here in the state of Connecticut, at least our governor talked about what we call the step up CT program and much to what Raylene was saying basically, you can go and just sign up to volunteer, you can help people do their grocery shopping, walk their dog, a lot of it is volunteer run, although through the cares act, I believe they did receive some funding for aid in that way. So they actually do have some paying positions to where you if you're out of work. You can be sort of replacing that lost income by doing good things for other people. So that's, that's awesome. Now, was

Unknown:

that a minimum wage or

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

what are they? Right, like I want to know. Yeah, I don't know what it was. That's a great question,

Raylene:

and are now an essential superhero. I want my cape.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Yes, actually in that. In that case, he would be.

Raylene:

I do intend to donate my plasma as soon as I am able to Because I hear that the plasma does help people who have been harder hit by the COVID. So, I'll do that. And I'll keep wearing my mask

Unknown:

here by five but you don't mean your TV correct?

Raylene:

No, no, no, no.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Because Curtis could use another flat screen.

Raylene:

I'm good to have the most ridiculous TVs in the world in my house. They're massive. They take up a whole wall, each one in the basement and one upstairs stupid.

Unknown:

I'm completely against TVs. I don't like holes in my wall. So I use projectors. Oh, well,

Raylene:

I mean, I can't see the holes in my wall because I have a big ass TV in front of it. So it doesn't bother me at all.

Unknown:

What? What did you watch during a quarantine? Oh, you had COVID actually,

Raylene:

everything. I watched Christmas movies. I started rewatching the crown while we're still going working through a couple seasons of Big Brother because we only started watching it last year. So we watch season 1819 and we're halfway through 20. So I mean, I was watching that TV.

Unknown:

So what does someone like me do if I end up finding out? I have COVID I do not watch TV. I don't think there's gonna be fun.

Raylene:

start watching. I would start watching So yeah, I mean, you need Matt. Yeah, I'll lend you my Netflix login if you need it.

Unknown:

preset to the channel for me. Well,

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

actually, the one that plays on this Diana is spot on.

Raylene:

I haven't gotten that far yet. Yeah, I haven't gotten that far. I just find it really interesting that Claire Foy, who plays in the first two seasons as Queen Elizabeth is also Elizabeth slander in our Salander, whatever, in Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. And those are two very, very, very different roles. And when I see people do that, I realized that acting is not just you playing another person, you know, because you got Matthew McConaughey, who plays the exact same character in every single

Unknown:

movie, as

Steve:

well in every movie,

Raylene:

but then you see something like that, and it's the same thing the girl from Jumanji, is also Nebula in The Avengers. And it's crazy that those two people that same person

Unknown:

like night, I never got to see Jumanji

Raylene:

realize that you have to go see one event while the current versions one is beyond I've seen it like five times. And my husband's even watched it twice. And he doesn't like movies at all. And then the second one is also pretty good

Unknown:

or bad on Netflix.

Raylene:

Probably not. But I mean, I have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, CBS all access all of the channels like I take my TV watching seriously,

Unknown:

which is a good point on day one of quarantine, which I guess technically today, I'm only gonna last for days, but four days granted, I am COVID free in my all my stuff. Let me just throw that disclaimer in. So I was going through my bills, and I realized those add up I have Amazon, I have amazon prime, Netflix, Hulu, I have title, I have some other app that I have no idea what it is. And it really really adds up. Do any of you guys check how many subscriptions you guys have? so easily accessible?

Raylene:

Yeah, I've been checking an ice. I'm trying to convince my family to go cable free for just like a month, just because then they'll have to call and offer me a better deal. But I also have so many other things. The thing that's keeping him is remember last week, when we had the lady from the chopped on, I have still 80 episodes of chopped and if I have to give up my DVR, I lose all that. Right? And so I'm like, do I just power washed through 80 hours of chopped and then cancel? I mean, it's only going to take like three or four days before they call me back and offer me a better deal. True. Did they tell you everybody tells you if you want a better deal on cable, you have to actually quit and then they're like, okay, you were serious. All right.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

My brother did that. They did nothing.

Raylene:

Yeah, well, then I have Amazon, CBS all access and we do I really also need the news.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

At that point. No,

Unknown:

your Jones got a phone.

Raylene:

Exactly. It's true. And they post everything on Facebook. That's true.

Unknown:

Everything important, true or false?

Raylene:

Exactly. So we've got some fun topics of conversation today. We've got workplace romance, how many millennials and Gen Z years would never knew you touch it. You buy it rule? Many people are in favor, but are you buying it? And why is it so challenging to talk to a representative is this bad customer service? And then later we're going to have David Silverman, a history professor at George Washington University and he is going to talk about his book. This land is their land in we're going to cover a little bit about the first Thanksgiving. That should be fun. It should be fun. So talk to the representative. That's your beef, isn't it Steve?

Unknown:

Um,

Steve:

my ultimate beef is that when you get the computer voice that goes high, this is a very important phone call then why the fuck is your computer calling? I hang up immediately like well, you got nothing on me.

Unknown:

What are you gonna do?

Raylene:

Bam call every second Exactly, exactly. Well, I actually

Steve:

worked at a call center for about four weeks. And then I woke up and decided I'd rather be homeless than work and never went back.

Raylene:

And truthfully, everyone you called wished you were home

Steve:

as well. The people that work there hated me because you have to follow a script. And it was a flower places guys would call, like, hey, my wife didn't get flowers delivered to her work today. And our script is to go, oh, we're gonna have them there tomorrow. And they're like, it's my anniversary, you jerk. And it's like, I'll give you 50% off. And these people take it. So if you just say no, to everything they offer you, they will eventually give you your money back. But they're designed to keep trying to offer you dumb shit along the way. It was amazing. I would offer someone a $10 gift card, they would take it the cheapest thing to purchase on the website is $35. God give me $25. Now to get the $10 back. So they're they're there just as an extension of the corporation,

Raylene:

right? No, yeah,

Unknown:

no corporate america studies that they want to make sure that their bottom line is fed. So based on the algorithms of what people say, and rebuttals to what you say they'll go through those 10, stop check, just to make sure their bottom line is suffice, and that someone's still going to order that $25 flowers, which I think is crazy. What about the flower place?

Steve:

Well, it was I guess I could get in trouble. It was it was an online ordering system. So it's funny, these dudes would get mad,

Raylene:

it was 100 flowers. Like,

Steve:

I would want to check them and be like, dude, if you're ordering from my wanting 100 service, that means you forgot the birthday, the wedding anniversary, like you fucked up to where you went to someone that was like, Hey, we can get there in 24 hours. So the fact that you even are complaining, like you deserve this to happen to your service.

Raylene:

And, you know, we've got some great local florists and I'm sure wherever anybody is, you've got great local florists go in with $35 and ask for a decent display and go local,

Steve:

I would say to the guys because I was genuinely upset for them. I'm like, wow, I would be really upset too. And then people will call me over after they go. You're not allowed to say that to them. Like why not the guy. It didn't show up to his voice work on the inner like he's supposed to get credit for that. You're not getting

Raylene:

to agree with everybody. And that's the first thing you're supposed to emphasize. Because now everybody is like, Oh, I'm so sorry. That happened to you.

Steve:

In the dead salt. Oh,

Raylene:

I'm so sorry that happened to you. What can I do to make it better?

Unknown:

They're better off hiring a bunch of theories behind the line that are just robots in trained robot that that

Steve:

when you get a good one, it seems so weird. Like I dealt with T Mobile a couple months ago. And this guy's getting me phone numbers and calling me back. And I even said to him, I said I hope I hope this recording goes somewhere because I've never dealt with anyone who genuinely took it on them to try to fix my issue. So shout out TMobile that one guy at C mobile

Raylene:

actually had really good service with T Mobile to the day that I joined them and then a day later quit them. And they were really good about it.

Steve:

Sure they're used to it by now,

Raylene:

probably as soon as somebody leaves the store and realizes there's only service in the store. Sorry, but they were really helpful.

Unknown:

So prior to this call, I just called the tax because I prepare for tax season that I love as an entrepreneur. And my wait time was an hour and 10 minutes before I spoke to a human. This was prior to the first 45 minutes being hung up on because I didn't figure out the trick to get to a system that actually landed me an actual customer service rep. So anything that guy said after an hour and 10 minutes was that 45 minutes, which is wrong, and I didn't care. Does anyone else have that that type of feeling after they've waited for so long? Well, well, I don't know.

Steve:

What I get from Verizon is I was trying to pay with their app is horrible. I can't I can't get my password to work. So I have to call in to pay my phone bill. It never takes my card the first time the second time. It always takes it and it always goes, hi, you're looking forward to a customer service representative. We're gonna charge you 699 to talk to this person, I'm gonna pay you $120 a month that I already paid for that representation. $7 just to talk to a human. Yeah, on Verizon, unbelievable.

Raylene:

You know, what you should do is just hang up and not pay this $7 and then when you don't pay your bill, they will call you for free.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

And they still charge you the fee.

Steve:

Do they really they shut me off and then they billed me 20 bucks.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Wow. plus, plus the $7 fee.

Raylene:

Maybe mobile again? Seems like the better customer service. Yeah, it's been it's a challenge. I hate calling anybody down because it's always push one for whatever.

Steve:

Oh my god.

Raylene:

And here's here's my favorite one when they will say something like press one for Joe or press one for billing. Like Tell me what I'm pushing. Give me the name first. If you're looking for billing, press one because after you said one and then billing I got lost. Right especially if it's only Like the sixth one, make an appointment. You know, press six if you want to make an appointment. Wait, what number Am I on now?

Steve:

Damn it if you're pissed, you know, you go straight to zero like just shut up. I

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

want somebody I love when you finally get to the person or you're about to get to the person you're on hold, you're hearing the music. And then it rings they're like, Yes, they're connecting me and then the person goes, Hi, thanks for calling. Like, hello. Hello.

Unknown:

They're gone. I was just in Tampa and I called a red lobster the border and now apparently Red Lobster in Florida. They outsource it to a call center. So you get that same experience and they were they were arguing on the phone so I go excuse me ma'am This is get on I'm hungry. Get a walk. I'm just like I'm gonna speak to a manager she was like Absolutely not. Literally in most words above so my own words I love absolutely not long story short, I did not get my meal either. And I did not get to see this woman so I called every day trying to find who that woman was. None of the people would give it to me. Wow,

Raylene:

I just I don't understand why more companies don't understand how important Customer service is. Because one I would have tweeted that red lobster so fast I would Karen to my ass rate to do something fancy

Unknown:

Good boy.

Raylene:

I can't believe you missed out on that after that conversation. I wouldn't tweeted it. And you know, was it canceled culture we were talking about last week. You know, you just start getting out there on the internet and people will be like yeah, that's right. Last time I called Red Lobster they pissed me off to

Steve:

at least send you some biscuits or something.

Unknown:

Exactly. All I

Raylene:

really want some good customer service.

Unknown:

isn't that hard? These days have good customer service.

Raylene:

Well I think the problem is that customers are mostly being assholes. And so I think there's like a customer's caused bad customer service.

Steve:

The job itself is soul crushing.

Unknown:

Oh for sure.

Steve:

I did some nasty horrible jobs in my life. Still four weeks at a call center was the worst job I've ever had.

Raylene:

I can say honestly beyond a shadow of a doubt I would be horrible at customer service my level of don't give a fuck is so high that I just would not whatever

Steve:

you do don't tell them that you'd be pissed to not appreciate that and

Raylene:

that was probably the right response. I probably gave the guy exactly what he wanted was little empathy. But ya know Customer service is really hard but I tell you what if I can find somebody who can talk me off a ledge you know I want to tell their boss like you've got a king there or queen cuz I can be a real bet when I'm upset if somebody can calm me down I love it. I'm like oh, that was masterful

Steve:

out there tweeting like it Karen

Unknown:

Right. Exactly whenever you fill out surveys after you had a good customer service No. Sometimes your bad one

Raylene:

yeah I did they never given to me after the bad ones.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

I feel like they've done a really great job I want to sing their praises I you know, I work in a call center for the insurance company and I'm so sorry. Yeah. It's actually not that bad. No, the company is really good. And a lot of our customers are really happy they're going on a trip Not right now they're not going on a trip and they're not right but that praise helps us out a great deal. So I always try to take the survey if I can just because I know how how helpful it can be.

Raylene:

Well that's good to know. I will fill them out for my one usually it's only if somebody if I was really upset when I called in and they talked me down that I will definitely be like Yep, totally awesome worth it fantastic. But if it's just a regular interaction, then I just kind of skip it because I wasn't that upset to begin with. But if it works for you then I will make sure that I start doing that. So I just heard about this you touch it you buy it and it said 58% of surveyed individual are in favor of a you touch it you buy it roll Is this

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

because of COVID

Unknown:

Yeah, yeah, I

Steve:

would think so. I was at the grocery store the other day and I went to go buy a carton of milk. Well, I wanted chocolate milk on my right home the other night and I intended to drink it out of the jug. I'm not gonna lie so when I looked at it had crusty milk all over the top of my mind I can't drink out the crispy jug one so I picked it up and I grabbed another one from the back and I saw this person look at me. Okay committed a crime and I'm like, I just looked at him I put the other one back like Yeah, what so but but I mean,

Raylene:

I do that every time I check like at least three or four back to see which one's got the latest soap so by date

Steve:

but now when I touch things that stores like I'm worried that I can feel someone watching me like are you going to take that you put that back? You just touched it?

Raylene:

I have to pick it up and look to see how many calories are on it how much it is what the sell by date is why there's a lot of shit if you're worried

Steve:

you wear gloves should it be uncertain things like produce because you can't I mean you could wash produce I guess but you can't really put hand sanitizer banana would be a horrible exam

Unknown:

didn't people be washing the hands anyway

Raylene:

their hands and their fruit and their whatever I was I just mailed something to somebody in New York and she said that she's got a spot on her nightstand inside the door and whenever it comes in, sits there for 10 hours before she'll touch it. Wow. Yeah, before she opens it.

Steve:

We need those sci fi like decontamination room. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Raylene:

Yeah, just buzz it just give it a little zap.

Steve:

We can't get a fucking mask for a nurse and I'm Asking for decontamination

Unknown:

under my house,

Raylene:

I just don't under I mean, I don't, that wouldn't be feasible at all. Because now you're saying like literally, people are putting stuff on the shelves. There's people putting stuff on the shelves, and then people are taking stuff off the shelves and you're gonna touch it and it's gonna move around and everything has been touched 72,000 times before you touch it, just wash your hands after you touch it. If you're

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

not a big deal. There's certain things like produce, obviously, you know, you're touching that by it, please. But like, you know, you see the ego at the grocery store, and she's picking up all the avocados. Yeah, and trying to feel them and then putting them back and you're like, oh my lord.

Raylene:

Yeah, no, I'm definitely touching 15 or 16. Avocados before I pick the perfectly right. Exactly. They got to be not too hard and not too soft. What

Steve:

about like trying on clothes, though? Like that sketches? Me? I'm not I'm not that concerned with germs and COVID and everything going on. But like, I'm not trying on clothes. Like, I'm not putting on pants or some dude just put on before?

Raylene:

Well, you're not gonna know if that happened. Because usually they put them back on the shelf. It's getting real hard. If you lost weight to go to the store and try anything on anymore. They're not letting anybody try anything on.

Steve:

Yeah, there's some places I mean, not I haven't seen any round here. But there are depending on the state you're in, I guess depends on but

Raylene:

right. And but then, like target for a while had no returns, like you couldn't return anything. So it's like, well, how are you going to sell me a pair of pants? Not Let me try them on. And then I try them on at home and then I can't bring them back. Guess who's not buying a pair of pants from Target.

Steve:

We'll give you a good deal on some exercise equipment. Exactly.

Raylene:

Well, but she lost like 50 pounds, and she can't try anything on. That sucks. Oh

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

my gosh, that's horrible. Wait, is this?

Unknown:

Is this real? Is this real? I'm still having trouble.

Raylene:

I mean, I don't think it's I don't think it's a lie. I think it's just there. Some people are just that's the rule. Not Not this. You touch it. It's being discussed. You buy it? in disgust? Yeah.

Steve:

So we're serving idea. 58% said they'd be cool with it.

Raylene:

Right? But those are probably all people who buy from Amazon anyway. Shut up.

Unknown:

Quit whining.

Raylene:

Yeah. And I just I mean, I think, quit quit it, you're either gonna get it or you're not gonna get it.

Unknown:

Right. And that's, I guess that's where I'm at. You're gonna get it, you're not gonna get it? Where are your math in wash your hands? Like it's very, very simple. There is nothing that they hope.

Raylene:

Exactly. I actually this isn't on our list of things to talk about. But I had seen today because we talked last week about the the vaccine being like 90% effective or something. And I saw an article came out today that said, but there's side effects, and you have to get two shots. So you get the first shot, you have side effects, and a lot of medical professionals are worried that people won't come back for the second shot. Because of the side effects from the first one.

Steve:

Well, I would assume the second shot is probably supposed to prevent the side effects from the first shot. That's how I would think the system works.

Raylene:

I don't know. But they gave a list of the side effects and the side effects seemed an awful lot like COVID

Steve:

Nothing worse. Any depressant commercial, right?

Unknown:

Isn't it technically like giving your COVID? Isn't that usually what the antivirus is?

Raylene:

Well, they're saying in this time they're putting it they're not putting in live active culture. They're doing like the RNA on it or something. But it's just funny that the side effects are pretty much COVID.

Unknown:

Right? So is the strand of COVID that they're not giving you but not giving you

Raylene:

exactly right right. But then everybody will have it so herd immunity will work.

Unknown:

But then we'll get to try and close once herd immunity work

Raylene:

exactly. And squeeze all the damn avocados that we want to

Steve:

touch all the melons you want.

Raylene:

Okay, guys, well, speaking of you touch it, you buy it? How do you feel about workplace romances?

Unknown:

not buying it at work.

Steve:

Also frowned upon.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

I you know, I I'm not in a predicament where I've met the love of my life at work. So I far removed opinion about it. But I don't think that it's a bad thing. I mean, the only way I could see where this would be really bad would be if you get into either a divorce if you're at that point where you've been married or you break up with the person. Now works becomes super awkward.

Raylene:

Those little cubicles get real small. Next year x

Steve:

will you really you really should not shit where you eat is the saying and I when I was younger, I used to do this like in radio, we have a bunch of interns and I'm not like Bill Clinton ending things. There's lots of new people coming in and out and there was a girl that I worked with that we had like a short little thing and it was over and then there was a new girl that came in it was really pretty. And I liked her. But guess what, because I hooked up with that one that one time. She was a scary girl the office so no girl was gonna cross her. So I got cock blocked, like two and a half years. So I learned from that point on like, just if you don't have to don't do it at work.

Raylene:

Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking like, I used to work at Foxwoods. So that's a little bit different. Because, I mean, there's thousands and thousands of people there. But I mean, if you're in a real small office, Hmm,

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

yeah, that's Gonna get weird.

Raylene:

That's gonna get weird real quick.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Yeah, some companies too are developing these policies where they want you to not just tell your HR person, but the whole company. So you literally have to send out. This is real. It's a real policy, you literally have to be like, yeah, so Sherry and I are in a relationship now. And then like, all 30,000 employees now No,

Steve:

I think that's weird. How awkward is that? When Sherry's like the office, slut and now. Now mark, who's all heartbroken over share is getting an email from the HR department rubbing in your face that she's dating somebody else now.

Raylene:

And then mark and Micah, get it next week? Well, then Sherry's dating life would have to shut down at that point. I don't know. I mean, they say that the millennials are not into it. Or the whatever the new generation is millennial

Unknown:

swipe left or right.

Raylene:

Exactly. I think in general, I don't think they're getting into real relationships anymore. I don't I mean, I really don't see. I think I'd read it somewhere that said that the the newer like, my youngest daughter has never had a boyfriend. How old is she? She's 21. Wow, she's 21. She's had hookups she's had for her situation ships. But

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

she'll go back to the what situation situation

Raylene:

ship,

Unknown:

ship,

Raylene:

you've never heard that. Never heard of that. That's that's kind of like, drama is born. It's basically two people who are hooking up and dating, but they're not dating. Like they're not in a relationship. They haven't defined the relationship, or one of them has decided to keep it open,

Steve:

they can bang someone else and not get in trouble for it.

Raylene:

I mean, they're still gonna get in trouble for it

Unknown:

through the 30s with that situation ships.

Raylene:

Yeah. And but I just in in my other daughter, who's 2009 has also never been in a long term relationship. So I'm wondering, and most of her friends and I'm, I know a lot of them also not a lot of long term relationships in there.

Steve:

And she, I was gonna, like, make a joke like, well, it's from watching all these fucked up marriages throughout their lives, but like you have a happy relationship with right,

Raylene:

but it is my second marriage. So, you know, there was a period of time where it wasn't all hunky dory. Yeah. Plus, let's be real marriage is hard. And if anybody's telling you it's not they're selling you something.

Steve:

And like Curtis said, you can go left. I can go to the bathroom for five minutes and find seven more people going like that, right?

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Yeah, I think that the way that we're finding people now is totally different. I met

Raylene:

my husband online, plenty of fish. I met mine in a country by Cuba.

Unknown:

What color What color? Were the jeans

Steve:

because you know, their jeans on?

Raylene:

They were all blue. All blue? Yeah, he used to wear the 505 buttons. Those were hot. But what the 505 button flies, where you didn't have a zipper. You had buttons? five buttons?

Steve:

That's making sure a woman's really into you. Right? It's like, wait, these are buttons. Yeah, it's gonna take like 45 seconds. It actually

Raylene:

doesn't take long at all. They were right. On the other hand, though, what it did do is cuz now it's got five buttons there instead of a zipper added about a three eighths to a half inch thickness and the width of the pants.

Steve:

See I got the button ones that I don't use them because it's hard to pee because I have to do the whole thing.

Raylene:

You know, it's gonna make it look like there needs

Unknown:

to be a competition on how fast because I don't feel like it's a

Raylene:

no, it's pretty easy. I mean, once you got the top one and done the other ones just pop right open. You just pull them apart.

Steve:

Like a Ziploc like

Unknown:

Exactly. In your defense. You sell sex toys, so I'd expect you to know how to do that.

Raylene:

I didn't do it back then. That was back when we first met

Steve:

you can now add this to the stage show. Exactly.

Raylene:

Those buttons guys it'll make you look thick.

Unknown:

Like like opposition,

Raylene:

like Al Gore and his presidential photos. Rolling Stone magazine made his junk bigger.

Steve:

Alright, I'm like I'm gonna Google Al Gore's dick when I get home. Yeah, this is great. You can't

Raylene:

just do al gore Rolling Stone photoshoot. They enhanced his oh man manhood

Steve:

and climate. Climate change.

Raylene:

Climate change, right? So but I mean, at least if you meet somebody at work, you know that the person you are now dating is employed.

Steve:

You're nuts to be with that person all day long. That's crazy. That's true.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

No, who would want to date somebody at work? Like I don't want to see you at work at home at the grocery store at? No, but Well, what makes you think that they're gonna be in your same department. A lot of these companies actually frown upon inter department relationships. So in other words, they'll say if you want to be in a relationship with someone that you work with, that's fine, but they can't be in the same department as you right have to be you know, someone in finance or marketing, you know, not your department because their history telling people they can't be with someone has always worked out very successfully.

Unknown:

Right, right.

Raylene:

But it's also you got to be careful with the manager level. You know, you don't want somebody who's in a position of power. But you know what sexy a guy in a position of power you know,

Steve:

it's sexy reception

Unknown:

Probably what are you doing at work that everyone knows that you're together outside of the natural form because there's a lot of people at work like when I've worked in the office for a short little sun it you could tell people were flirting or they were in situation ships or entanglements or just and I always wondered like, why why why and why it just all led to trouble it led to more intermingling and it just it just felt really awkward and weird and never ended well the heart

Raylene:

wants what the heart wants

Unknown:

or the button wants what the buttons

Raylene:

right well if if what's inside your jeans pops those buttons up all by itself you know you got a problem.

Steve:

Levi's needs to come out with the bulge now. extra big buttons.

Unknown:

Oh,

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

not Levi's skinny jeans. Skinny in the leg. Big in the crotch.

Raylene:

I'm telling you every guy over 30 looks like a bulldog on his legs when they're wearing the skinny jeans is so stupid.

Steve:

Push him right over.

Raylene:

Just don't guys though. Don't want the skinny jeans if you don't have the body for it just fucking don't. It's like It's like somebody my age and weight wearing low rise jeans stone.

Steve:

But whatever you do, make sure they have a button zipper. That's the

Unknown:

most important thing in skinny jeans and grey pants. It's like do do we have to have that much attention as men? No,

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

you say donate pants.

Unknown:

Yeah What did they call that the the eggplant everything the great pet like just google great plants on like social media. Oh

Steve:

you guys keep telling me to Google dicks tonight when I get home.

Raylene:

With the only thing that is important in a man in pants and guys stop covering them and need to see your butts. butts are best part. I'm a butt girl. And the hipsters who started wearing the the I mean wear whatever you want, but stop covering your assets true. Girl a girl likes to look man get your ass. That's exactly what I meant put on.

Unknown:

Your Pants actually have to be on Don't leave them below. Oh yeah, no,

Raylene:

I absolutely hate I hate that. That is attractive about that. Please do not have your pants hanging off your ass. Let me see your butt cheeks. I mean like the curve, not the actual one.

Steve:

She wants a bulge in the front and a bulge in the back.

Raylene:

Exactly. You be your shapely cells. Men do it.

Unknown:

I'm tough.

Raylene:

I honestly I cannot be I'm probably like a guy who likes legs. You know if I see a nice looking button in grocery store, I will glance over at it on my way to do other things and think that was a nice button. Keep moving on my way. The world light went off. Yesterday, thanks for clearing.

Unknown:

What is the one you guys walk at work when you see their nice girl a guy that has a nice foot, whatever

Steve:

I have a I have a three count at all times. It's 123 and you never look again, if you do a second turn or turn your shoulders your fucking creep. Alright, so if you go 123 done, that's all you get.

Raylene:

I have been self employed for 14 years. So the only time I ever see anybody is in a grocery store. And it's it's, you know, that's a nice, but can I get that? canopies.

Steve:

You touch it, you buy it?

Raylene:

Actually I do that call. I put it in the flick file.

Steve:

Oh, we know what that means. Right? Our files turn differently. But yeah, same same action. Got

Raylene:

it. Curtis trying to figure out if you can flip file,

Steve:

referring to movies of any kind, well, maybe

Raylene:

exactly goes in the flick file.

Unknown:

I know what I'm googling.

Raylene:

If anybody else is using that term, it's mine. They still

Steve:

give you three great options at Google tonight after you listen to this. Enjoy. There you go.

Raylene:

Okay, so we're gonna take a quick break. And when we get back, we will be talking to our guest, David Silverman.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

So we've got this podcast.

Steve:

Yeah. Heard. It's something like undebatable.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

That's it. That's the one. Yeah, it's brilliant. It's brand new. And I think it's sure to be a huge hit.

Steve:

Well, I mean, I know personally, for the funniest host you could ever have of all time and obviously very unbiased as

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

well. Clearly very unbiased. Yeah, absolutely. We're talking about the hottest issues that face America, as well as things like pop culture, even politics built right in something funny, something that will make you cry, angry, whatever it is, we will trigger you somewhere. But we want you to join the undebatable team, all of those emotions. Exactly. And there's so many ways you can join in on the conversation after each episode. You can go to the website, www dot undebatable dot show, and you can participate in the conversation from our previous episodes. You can also find us on social media, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, we're on all the big players. It's undebatable it's on available and it's unbeatably. So

Keith:

you're listening to undebatable. Here's Raylene Curtis, Steve and Bradford.

Raylene:

Welcome back, everybody. Now we have our speaker I'm looking forward to talking to him. David J. Silverman is a professor of history at George Washington University. He's the author of several books on Native American colonial American and American racial history, including this land is their land, the Wampanoag Indians Plymouth Colony and the troubled history of thanksgiving in Thunder sticks, firearms in violent transformation of Native America. He is the recent recipient of the William Hicklin Prescott Award for Excellence in historical writing, given by the Massachusetts branch of the National Society of colonial dames of America, his essays have appeared in The New York Times The Atlantic National Geographic, and the Daily Beast. Welcome to the show, David,

Unknown:

thank you for having me.

Raylene:

Um, tell us a little bit about your books. Well,

Unknown:

my most recent one is holding up the Thanksgiving myth that we're all taught as as young people and that our society celebrates to the light of history. And I'm putting wampa nog people, Native Americans from southeastern New England at the center of the story, and using it to reveal that the myth that we have grown up with is a sanitized version of colonial history, that it's a feel good bedtime story designed to make white, white people feel better about colonialism. I think you ask any reasonable adult, whether they think a shared meal is an appropriate symbol of Native American colonial relations, almost your person, again, I'm talking about thoughtful people, almost your person, they will say, No, you know, their question, I usually follow up with this, then why do we teach this to our children when we know it's false? And that was an exploration of the ways it's false. And how this became an American tradition?

Raylene:

Probably the same way Columbus Day got started. Yeah, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. And it's basically the history is written by the winners. And so we lie,

Unknown:

I think that's more or less correct. ways that the winners lie are they're deeply, deeply interesting, at least to me as a, as a historian, I think most of your listeners will be surprised to learn that the Association of the Thanksgiving holiday with pilgrims and Indians didn't begin until the 19th century. It wasn't in the 1600s. It wasn't in the 1700s. It started in the 1840s, and really didn't pick up until the late 1800s. And it did so because of particular cultural tensions in American society at that time.

Steve:

So for for like one picture we have of the traditional Thanksgiving and the Miss, that you talk about what would be like to you one of the biggest ones that most of us assume it's just the traditional Thanksgiving, but it's absolutely inaccurate.

Unknown:

Well, I the idea, that friendly Indians, and they're very rarely identified by tribe, but friendly Indians greeted the pilgrims and then granted their country to these newcomers, and then just disappeared. To make it easy for New England colonists and their descendants to become the United States as a beacon of liberty, Christianity, opportunity for the rest of the world to admire. You know, it's a myth that's designed to sanitize the bloody work of colonialism. A colonialism is a dark business. And that was true in the early United States, just as as it was true anywhere else around the globe. Right. And the myth is designed to paper over that dark history.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Correct. Now, back to kind of what you said about the 1800s when Thanksgiving really became a holiday and that was kind of would that be because Abraham Lincoln at that time proclaimed it as an official national holiday? Or was that a different time?

Unknown:

That certainly added fuel to the myth you know, before Lincoln declares Thanksgiving be a national holiday. It had been a regional holiday, it was mostly a Yankee holiday centered into Englander places where New Englanders migrated. But even before Lincoln's declaration, the association with pilgrims and Indians had been made a guy named Alexander young. He's a minister published the primary source account of the first Thanksgiving, if you will, in 1840. It's the first time that anyone had identified this feast as the model for the Thanksgiving holiday and young made that point is a footnote, there aren't a lot of famous footnotes in history, trust me as a historian. But this was one of them. And his idea really did gain momentum over time. And it did so for a number of reasons. One is that it made the ancestors of white Protestants from the northeast, the founding fathers of America, at a time, when there was enormous tension within American society about an influx of immigrants, Catholics from Ireland and Germany, it was all it all. It was also a feel good story that allowed New England errs to distance themselves from what they called the Black and Indian problems of the south and west of the 19th century. And it allowed, it allowed white Americans to effectively appropriate native people after defeating them on the Great Plains in the Rocky Mountain West. They were no longer bloodthirsty savages in the American imagination. Now, they were a domesticated part of the story of America's great

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

was there actually, like, a sit down meal though in 1620? Like an actual there were things exchange 21

Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, but it was a non event to all of the participants. They the the English, barely wrote about it. two paragraphs, and neither side ever mentioned it again, in their politics with one another. It's it's two centuries later that people started to attribute importance to this event.

Raylene:

I think it's because the minister had like a second grade teacher as a sister, and she made a play. And so all the kids bouncing around with their little fake pilgrim hats. And now that's how I got famous. So it was like, look how cute those kids are, that must be true,

Steve:

they do look cute.

Unknown:

Those places Thanksgiving pageants have been a critical element in spreading this myth through American society. And you know what those those pageants are designed to do is to take a diverse group of schoolchildren and get them to identify with the pilgrims as fellow white people. Yeah, I remember myself participating in one of those pageants and singing the song My country visibly, in which we lionize the pilgrims as my father's. My last name is Silverman. And the descendants of the walking dogs are as much my countrymen and countrywomen as the descendants of the pilgrims.

Raylene:

Well, my main name is Savage. So I'm definitely probably more closely related to the Indians than the pilgrims.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

You hear about in your book, all of the horrible things that colonists did cluding something that's sort of reminiscent of now, which was to spread all of these crazy, I believe it was measles, or smallpox, smallpox. And I, you know, I actually thought 1620 would have been the first meal. So in my mind, I'm like, this is the 400th anniversary, but it's not right. And we've got COVID. So I was just like, what a coincidence.

Unknown:

COVID is child's play compared to smallpox. One of the things as a historian that you begin to appreciate is how good we have it, even in our darkest of times we're living in in the good times. Compared to these folks. The essential prehistory to the first Thanksgiving is that the wampanoags contract a plague we don't know what it was probably smallpox from European explorers. And this is even before the arrival of the Mayflower monarchs had a century of contact with these explorers before the Mayflower arrives. They can track this this plague in the year 1616 and eviscerates their population and we're talking about population losses that were at minimum 50% and ran as high as 90%. In some communities, are you again COVID is child's play compared compared to this, it made them vulnerable to their Narragansett tribal enemies to the west. And that's why they reach out to the Mayflower passengers when they arrive, because they need military allies against their Narragansett enemies. It's not that they're friendly. It's that they're politically calculating and desperate. Since grade school Thanksgiving pageants

Raylene:

that's intriguing, like crazy, I might have to go and listen to your book.

Unknown:

I've actually read through a lot of your book, and I think it's amazing. So you talk about, you know, Thanksgiving, or the original one happening in the 1600s. And I think for our listeners here, it'd be important to know that outside of the smallpox coming, and I think it was a 1637 ish. Talk about the green Corn Festival of the Pequots here in Connecticut, and how that happened after this quote, unquote first Thanksgiving. Well, every native group in southern New England and indeed east of the Mississippi, like farm And peoples all over the world would have harvest festivals whenever there for whenever their crops came in. Um, so you know I be calling the meal between the pilgrims and the Wampanoag. So the first Thanksgiving is really a misnomer. There had been Thanksgivings in the Americas since timeout of mine just as there have been Thanksgivings in England. Since a timeout of mine. I think what you might be referring to here is that New England colonists routinely celebrated their Vic military victories over native people with days of Thanksgiving. And that happens on two occasions that appear in my book one is after the ferocious Pico war 1636 37 in which the colonies of Connecticut and Massachusetts and their native allies the Mohegan Sun, the Narragansetts devastated the peak watsco, massacring hundreds of them and selling the survivors into slavery. Afterwards, the colonies held the day of Thanksgiving Day in praise of God for, you know, granting them victory over their savage enemies. Then only the colonies did the same thing after King Philip's War of 1675. And here, I think that that Thanksgiving is even more poignant, because it came after the New England colonies defeated the Waffen ox, the very group that had greeted the Mayflower passengers back in 1620. And that that Thanksgiving celebration by Plymouth Colony and by Massachusetts, was preceded by colonial troops, and their native allies, killing per medicon, the whopping odd leader, the very son of Lucia mcquinn, or Massasoit, the chief who had the first Thanksgiving, if you will, with Plymouth Colony. And after he's, he's killed, the English of Plymouth, cut off his arms and legs, cut off his head and mouth they had outside of Plymouth Colony, the very place where the first Thanksgiving took place, and they left it there to rot for 20 years. This is the stuff of colonialism. A shared meal does not capture these sorts of dynamics,

Steve:

no Happy Thanksgiving.

Unknown:

I know right? Happy, happy, so much. So to that point of, you know, the shared meal, not really telling the story of Thanksgiving, how should our education system actually be educating the youth on Thanksgiving? Should they be telling it? And in real time and in real terms? Or should it be watered down? What is going too far? And what is not enough? Well, my preference would be to separate the holiday from the myths. They don't need to go together at all. I I'm all in favor. And by the way, most watchdogs I know are in favor of getting together with family and friends and offering thanks for that it's good good in our lives. That's a wonderful ritual we should do more often. We don't have to attach that ritual, just like New Englanders didn't didn't invoke the myth for two centuries. We don't have to attach those two things together. What I would say is if we're going to attach the story of the pilgrims in Wapping dogs to Thanksgiving, we have to get the story straight. And I don't think that's a story that we want to be educating grade schoolers. It's too much. So let's not feed them a sanitized history. That a is really a story of racial indoctrination. It's designed to make white people feel better about colonialism, and to make them feel like they're the proprietors of the country. It's also a story that does damage to native people who have to sit there and listen to this nonsense year after year. Imagine being a whopping odd kid in a classroom listening to this nonsense. It hurts them I know it hurts them that told me multiple times of how harmful it is. And there are again there are countrymen and women. a national holiday shouldn't do harm to any segment of our national population.

Raylene:

Okay, so we're gonna do our lightning round now where we get to know you a little bit better. So I'm gonna start Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Never should be illegal, right?

Unknown:

Man have a sir. We don't do that.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

What is the most fascinating time period in history?

Unknown:

Oh boy, I am a 17th century man. It is so it is so different from our own period. It is such an incredibly violent time. I mean, it is an age of barbarism and I mean, everyone in it. It the the level of brutality that people experience on a daily basis. It's hard for us to conceive. First and foremost, I would say everyone in that world was afraid of being captured by foreigners. Everyone was a constant threat. It's so hard for us to conceive of what that would be like

Raylene:

they were mostly afraid of Britain.

Unknown:

You The taxes are really

Steve:

well, we've been talking about colonists if you are given the chance to be the first colonists on Mars, but you couldn't return would you go? No. me.

Unknown:

I've studied colonialism to

Steve:

experience a great perspective.

Unknown:

Alrighty, so for me, it would be what is your favorite temperature? I'm kind of like high 60s. My season? Yeah, I like and since one of the Thanksgiving spirit or not the meal or the spread has been set on the table, what is the first thing you're going after? Well, I would go pie first. But I you know, I'm usually obstructed from doing that by my mother. And so I'm going with liquor. Love it.

Raylene:

I didn't think about counting that as a food group. But I will bring that up Thursday.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

He's just the best workout. It's just been added to the pyramid.

Raylene:

There we go. Okay, what's your favorite holiday?

Unknown:

I looked at excuse me, to be perfectly honest with you. I love being a glutton.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

That's awesome. What is your favorite hobby or pastime?

Unknown:

I like hiking. I like I like mountain hiking.

Steve:

Now I've gotten in many debates about this. Is it a grocery cart or a grocery carriage?

Raylene:

Why not a buggy?

Unknown:

Well, I grew up in masteries. And so we call it the cut. Ah, that is awesome. I like that.

Raylene:

David, thank you so much for coming on our show today. This has been absolutely fascinating. I'm a huge history person. But when it's presented to me in a way that is not boring. And you've done that. So I appreciate it.

Unknown:

Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it, too. You're very happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

Raylene:

That was fun. It was

Unknown:

really interesting. And he got a round of applause for the way he started.

Steve:

It's it's like remind me of school. Like you're those teachers that are really boring. And then you have those teachers that you love to sit in there and you can just listen all day long. That's what Professor Silverman was. That was Yes, I can listen, I 45 more questions I can ask.

Raylene:

I'm gonna listen to that book. I list all my books come in. Unless it's a romance, everything else is audible. Because otherwise I fall asleep

Unknown:

somewhere. Interesting. It's interesting hearing everyone's recount when it comes to different tribes. Because each tribe tells the story a tad differently. For the most part, it's the same. But it was interesting to hear him hone in on the whoppin dogs which are closer to him than me growing up with the peacock story of Thanksgiving, which is centered around that massacre that happened. Yeah, I know that.

Steve:

It was a great question. You asked him like how to go forward with education. And his answer was so perfect. We're like, just separated two ways. You can have the holiday and you're gonna have the history to separate things.

Unknown:

I literally wrote that down. I was like, let me pass this note along. We're struggling with that. Yeah,

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

yeah, you can tell that his passion is just so incredibly he loves what he does and delivers in such a fantastic way.

Raylene:

I'm guessing you've been to Pequot Museum, Curtis

Unknown:

I used to actually I grew up on the Reds but I used to teach there.

Raylene:

Now I bet you probably know one of my friends. I actually was there when it was being built but then I moved to Florida before it closed so friend of mine let me go and wander around over the summer and I had a blast just looking at I mean, I don't know if I want to say had a blast it's kind of weird. Looking at decimated tribes history your

Steve:

educationally inspired

Raylene:

that was educationally inspired.

Unknown:

You know, it is a really cool and impressive museum. For anyone who wants to visit the Northeast you have to check out the Mashantucket Pequot museum and research center it is actually well worth it. Yeah,

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

it is my favorite parts of the village.

Steve:

Oh my god,

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

the village. You I mean, they did such an amazing job designing that, that you literally feel like you have just stepped back into history. Right? You were there.

Steve:

And they're like surrounded, being surrounded by all those woods and pine trees out there really put you in this saying like, Hey, this is where it is. And you feel like you're in it.

Raylene:

And because we live here, it's like being in your own backyard. Yeah.

Unknown:

Well, and it's Untold History that happens when you go to school. So it's like wait, this isn't our backyard but yet our history books tells this it's like so contradicting It was very nicer than theirs to get out of the way when we showed up.

Raylene:

Right? Right. For them

Unknown:

happy Thanksgiving.

Raylene:

And then my favorite line from every single Thanksgiving play as we call it me's.

Unknown:

dude Oh, you guys grew up like painting the native like hats with

Raylene:

the feathers each had the thing that you were thankful for us if you had a lot of feathers. You were on a

Steve:

beach town in Connecticut. I was doing all that stuff. Yeah, I had my own turkeys all that. Oh, yeah. I have

Raylene:

my pilgrim hat and I had to be in the play. Yeah,

Unknown:

I was like you can call my mother I'm not doing that. Oh man. The

Raylene:

courtesy enjoyed the role so well.

Unknown:

Right until it came time for the snacks in the food. Oh, Count me in.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Your like, I will celebrate in that manner. But

Raylene:

so what do you guys looking forward to eating the most on Thursday?

Steve:

It's the day after sandwiches, man sandwiches, the cranberry stuffing the turkey on the bread altogether.

Raylene:

We're not doing turkey this year. We're only doing ham.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Okay, so I was gonna say I'm really glad that my dad doesn't support our podcast and listen, but he wants a chicken. Do you know any time during the course of the year, we eat chicken. I eat chicken probably two or three times a week. Maybe you go to the store, you get those rotisserie chickens, you know? I'm like,

Steve:

what he's getting the rotisserie. Oh no, he's

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

making a homemade rotisserie. But my point is we have that.

Steve:

If there is a day you're worried about not getting a chicken Thanksgiving is the greatest day to be guaranteed a chicken right? That's

Raylene:

true.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

We literally have a turkey in our freezer now because it was fresh. But now we've had the freezer since he decided, well, I'm

Raylene:

sorry if he's not cooking. He gets to eat what you make.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Thank you. I know how

Raylene:

lemons. Just tell him it's chicken. Tell him it's a big chicken dad. It was just a big chicken

Unknown:

who's cooking and who's not?

Raylene:

Well, I'm cooking because my family decided that we would not do our family get together because of COVID. And so now I'm going to be cooking which is why we're not having Turkey.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Well yeah, cuz it's probably a massive turkey right?

Raylene:

No, it's because Turkey is drying disgusting. gravy, baby

Unknown:

gravy. Exactly.

Raylene:

What I told my daughter The only thing that makes turkey good is the gravy.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Well apparently got a deep fryer too.

Unknown:

Yes, you fry it

Raylene:

unless you fry it. Yeah, so ham, and my gut. So there's only four of us and I got this like 28 pack of Hawaiian King rolls. And my daughter's like what are those before and I'm like your might be pissy with me now. But the day after Thanksgiving when we're eating glazed ham with honey mustard dressing on a Hawaiian King roll. Everybody in this house is gonna be like Yes, mom. That was smart. I don't like two thirds of

Steve:

those things. That sounds amazing.

Unknown:

Are you cooking? No, I

Steve:

normally cook we're not really doing anything this year. So I'm gonna get hammered with four of my friends. Fantastic. Catch a buzz and maybe COVID somewhere is gonna be open and we're going

Raylene:

in COVID for Christmas. Me and daddy are mad.

Unknown:

Like the bow on it.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

I'm sure the casinos will be open.

Raylene:

Well, they will definitely it will definitely be open. How would you Curtis

Unknown:

I am looking forward to stuffing but I think I will be quarantined. So I might as well head back on a flight to Florida. Oh my god. I couldn't get my COVID test in time. So it's scheduled for Thursday. And that's a little too thin for me.

Raylene:

Oh, well. Isn't Thursday actually Thanksgiving?

Unknown:

Yes. Listen.

Steve:

realization just

Unknown:

like shit.

Raylene:

Are you doing a rapid

Unknown:

I'm doing the rapid m the the regular textbook. I had. I had hoped that I could do my rapid a couple of days ago which would mean that I would have felt anything and or felt more comfortable going for Thanksgiving because my 10 day window. I've been studying with my doctor but it all messed up. Right But in all fairness, I was going to cheat. I am a pescetarian so I was going to cheat for the first time with my brother and have fried jerky but my mom is no longer making fried turkey so I when when except I took a flight back.

Raylene:

Ah, bummer. Well, why don't you do that?

Unknown:

To make it for fried Turkey.

Raylene:

I'm looking forward to the sweet potatoes, sweet potatoes with marshmallows on top. Oh, wow.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

That's like a southern thing. Right?

Raylene:

And I don't know if it's a southern thing, but it's a family thing in my house.

Unknown:

We have that don't eat sweet potato. Why? Yeah, I don't know. My family tells me I'm not black enough. Or I you know they took away my black card. And that's just being a true spirit. Back in cheese, corn bread. None of this stuff.

Raylene:

Maybe I'm black and I don't know what those are all things sound really good to me.

Unknown:

You've done industry.com did you probably

Raylene:

know I haven't but I definitely I know. I'm Indian. Like we've got our history black there, but not far enough back.

Bradford Ricardo-Hyde:

Well, that's what makes me so conflicted about our speaker that we just had on because I am English on my dad's side. And on my mom's side, we have just a sliver of First Nation Canadian. And so hearing that book, like half of me is like very intrigued there half of me is like screw you white people. And then there's that like, reminder that you are white. But yeah, yeah, I'm

Steve:

I'm a white man in America from the north. So I know most of my ancestors were pretty dickheads along the way.

Raylene:

That's the thing. If you look at any history, it's I think about it all the time. I'm like, I'm so glad I was born. Now. Because you guys's lives, mate. Well, okay, Curtis's life would be very different. And but you two, you're pretty white. And you're a male. Yeah. So I mean, even 50 years ago, I probably would not have for

Unknown:

both very well. It's funny.

Steve:

I used to work at a deli when I was in high school. And I remember always remember this, I rang up a price for this old guys, like seven years old and it was 1942. And he went, ah, the good old days. I said, Yeah, unless you're a woman or you are black. And he and he laughed, because it was so fucking real. It was good for you.

Unknown:

Everybody else?

Raylene:

Well, thanks for coming into the guys and thanks for calling in. See you guys next week.

Keith:

You've been listening to undebatable. Finally, a show proving that people can disagree and still have fun, like it ought to be. We hope you had fun too. And we'll be back soon. Until then join in the conversation with us on our website at www dot undebatable dot show or connect with us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. We'll see you next time. Until then, this is undebatable signing off.

David J Silverman

David J. Silverman is Professor of History at George Washington University. He is the author of several books on Native American, colonial American, and American racial history, including This Land is Their Land: The Wampanoag Indians, Plymouth Colony, and Troubled History of Thanksgiving; and Thundersticks: Firearms and the Violent Transformation of Native America. He is the recent recipient of the William Hickling Prescott Award for Excellence in Historical Writing, given by the Massachusetts branch of the National Society of the Colonial Dames of America. His essays have appeared in the New York Times, The Atlantic, National Geographic, and the Daily Beast.